recollé ic inbox 2.0;

[parodeity]

DAVE STRIDER

consider this your warning about stairs. itll just keep happening bro. im telling you man

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Comments

[parodeity]

The cure might hurt worse than the injury. So. Seriously, don't worry about it that much. I'm not gonna cut you out entirely.

[splinten]

I'm not the only person I'm worried about in this equation.

[parodeity]

I only completely broke down once to my knowledge back then. And I haven't cut it that close here as I've remembered more.

[splinten]

Again, that isn't totally my concern. I don't have to be a danger for my own health to be in a bad situation with the crap I had to deal with in this life [he.... still doesn't like calling it depression he never has] and it's the same. That you aren't breaking down doesn't mean you're okay.

[parodeity]

You know that's the lever.

[splinten]

What?

[parodeity]

You're sayin' you're...y'know.

[splinten]

[...]

Not in an ideal state of mind?

[ie: depressed and potentially suicidal?]

That isn't a lever I can ever use, dude, that'd be pointblank emotional manipulation. Which I may or may not have been guilty of in a past life and this one, but it's something that I don't ever want to make a habit of.

[parodeity]

You weren't and haven't been.

[ a shrug. ]

But yeah, that's how it feels, right? So you get why I sometimes don't want to tell you shit about my state of mind.

[splinten]

[wait]

You think it'd be emotionally manipulative. [There's a raise at the end that makes it a question. It's just so impossible to see it that way. for Dirk.]

[parodeity]

That's one of the problems, yeah.

[splinten]

Okay, I definitely don't see it that way, but what are the others?

[parodeity]

...Things. [ clear as mud, but that's apparently as helpful as he feels like being in that direction. ]

If me not doin' shit or doin' shit because you feel like crap is emotionally manipulative on your part, the vice versa direction is also true.

[splinten]

That isn't emotionally manipulative, holy shit.

[LET HIM JUST. Gh.]

It's manipulative to try to control someone else with your emotional crap. It isn't manipulative to tell them what the situation is and let them make their own choices.

[parodeity]

...I've spent a long time not tellin' you and it's worked so far?

[splinten]

Worked to accomplish the goal of me not knowing when I hurt you. I do not know what else it worked for.

[parodeity]

That was the goal.

[splinten]

[Goddammit Dave]

So the goal has nothing to do with the question of manipulation or not, just ignorance. [HE HAS TO COME BACK TO THIS BECAUSE LIKE. He feels he misrepresented it, badly.] Because if telling people when their actions upset you is manipulative, then you're setting up a framework where it's manipulative to tell a dude spewing off homophobic crap that he's being damaging, or whatever else hypothetical you want to set up for this.

Don't get me wrong, I frequently think that I'm being manipulative by tellin' people how I feel. It just isn't an inherently manipulative action, despite what I tend to think of myself, or else we're defining 'manipulative' way too broadly for it to have any value as a term.

[parodeity]

No, it did. Because sometimes people do things that make them happy - you included, but other people too - and it can hurt other people. That's true of like...everyone. And I don't think it's good, exactly, to ruin that. It's better to shut up and take it.

[splinten]

I don't know that I agree. It seems to me like for people whose happiness would be ruined by realizing a thing hurts others, the preference would generally be to know and change that course of action. They get to choose what they do then, instead of unknowingly doing something they never intended or wanted to.

I've definitely been a hypocrite on this point, but that's also why I've considered it a lot. I don't think it's a bad thing to tell others what they need to make an informed decision about their actions. It doesn't make you manipulative, since by nature it requires that you give up control of the emotional situation. Not that you have to, it just ain't unfair or manipulative if you decide to do it.

[parodeity]

Some pains are just a part of life, bro.

[splinten]

That doesn't mean we have to go about causing them blindly. I'm not tryin' to force your hand here, just... can you see it flipped turnways? If you were hurtin' me and didn't know it. You'd want to know so you could stop. I know that's exactly the position you don't want to put me in, but in terms of ethics it's also why I'm insisting it isn't morally wrong for you to tell people. This is sort of a theoretical point, I guess, but it's an important one.

[parodeity]

[ he shrugs, uncomfortable. ]

I already told you parts of it today. [ or most of it, but only said sideways, and not in full. ]

[splinten]

[Dirk is quiet, but he nods.]

I don't know if I caught it all, or even the majority of it. Sorry.

[parodeity]

You don't have to be. It's easier if you don't. It's...a normal thing.