parodeity | subnautica ic inbox 2.0;

We agreed back then I'd tell you when I fucked off, and I've agreed since not to do that without someone else along for the ride.

[ despite the fact sometimes he would like to ditch the world for a solo roadtrip, he won't. he kind of expects everyone else to try to keep to the buddy system too as a result now though, because he gets the reasoning behind people not wanting him out on his own alone. ]

That's not enough, or doesn't cover all the situations in which I've fucked up and made you think you're a halfstep away from being alone forever. The trigger I was referrin' to was isolation. Childhood developmental fear. Right?

Edited 2017-01-08 07:19 (UTC)

[Oh.]

The whole point of this trip was me trying to tell you what I meant by isolation as an issue. My argument against it as a trigger is that it isn't like a broad concept is sufficient as a descriptor for something to avoid. Besides which, it isn't as if I was traumatized by isolation in my youth.

[Or.

Dirk frowns.]

Isolation isn't the same thing as puppets.

Ok, that's a true point, but also? It's a fuckin' dumb one.

[ that is definitely the best way to put this. ]

If we start comparin' and contrastin' our issues we'll be here all day and you haven't even commented on the oranges? [ THAT HE MADE BRIGHT BLUE. in this little grove dirk dreamed up. ] It's not the same thing, but it is a thing that makes you feel...

[ he searches for the words. ]

Small and stupid and weak and useless. Right? If we have to compare anythin', we can at least probably agree that it feels to you as terrible as some of my shit feels to me. Just in a different way. And I wasn't suggestin' we avoid "isolation" as a broad descriptor. We can narrow it down, genius.

Edited 2017-01-08 07:29 (UTC)

[Small and stupid and weak and useless. He can't argue with that. He can't, really, argue with any of it. He doesn't know if he wants to? He should argue with it. He shouldn't put his problems on Dave.

Or he should. Not put them on Dave, but talk to him. Not... do the things he keeps asking Dave not to do.

Dirk breathes in. Slowly, he breathes out.]

Things like that. [Unlovable, unacceptable, unworthy.] I thought the oranges thing was your contribution to this place. [Dirk makes a grove. Dave makes an absurdity. It seems legit.]

You are probably right that this is a thing we should think about handling.

Yeah, but you didn't even compliment them.

[ the oranges. HE WILL APPARENTLY BE HOLDING ONTO THIS, until he is suitably distracted. ]

Okay, so. Like with all the problems you've broken down for me when we've gone over them. We... [ shit he's usually useless at this part dirk generally comes up with the "how do we address this issue in a reasonable manner" plans. dave flounders for a second, before choosing: ] Um. Is just tellin' you I'm goin' somewhere with someone enough? For trips.

[ may as well start where there's already precedence in place. ]

Edited 2017-01-08 07:45 (UTC)

[Congratulations, Dave. You now have the steering wheel. Enjoy.]

Yes.

[pause]

Most of the time.

[Shit.]

You know the thing you said about telling you if something about our relationship has to change. I'd also like to request that you tell me when something in our relationship has to change.

Like if you decide I don't get to come with you on trips anymore. Just... tellin' me would help, by indicating you still care enough to let me know where I stand.

[ he hates being in charge and can't drive why would anyone give him this power!!! ]

Do you even still want to? I'm...not comfortable with takin' you right now because of the whole. [ telling other people things obligation when he's agreed to tell things to basically rose all the time and dirk most of the time but hasn't afforded that right to anyone else. ] Thing. So I figured it would be better to...not put you in the position of havin' to deal with that?

[ that sounds stupid. but he figures he can't possibly drop below the "so, anyway, possibly i need you to encourage me to eat as a bro stand in" bar so he may as well say it. ]

Edited 2017-01-08 07:58 (UTC)

Kinda. [That's a complicated issue. He goes on slow, considered. Trying to work the right words out.] It's more like that used to be a thing we did, and now it isn't. I respect that that's part of your comfort, and it might hurt but it's something I can work with and work on.

[then it tumbles out:]

It's just that you casually tossed out that Rose would be going with you on a trip that was supposed to be for us and it felt like being replaced.

[nailed it]

By kinda you mean you at least halfway or more don't want to.

[ that would, of course, be the part he focused on, but he thinks about the rest.

it. didn't just feel like it. that was definitely replacing dirk with rose immediately. ]

I didn't want to tell you that you couldn't tell Jake shit. Which you can do? I just. If we want to do the old stuff, you'll have to accept - the whole thing you do not want to accept, at this point. So it's in limbo.

It's more complicated.

[Yeah. It was not just a feeling, and Dirk is pretty sure about that, and that hurts. It hurts badly. Someone who can be replaced is someone who isn't necessary. Someone who isn't necessary is someone who can be abandoned. Someone who should be abandoned.

Someone who might as well be isolated. It's for the best.]

I am going to seek clarification on the thing I do not want to accept. Being ambiguous is probably not going to be to our advantage at this point.

More complicated how?

[ but right, clarification. ]

I would be forcing myself to put up with you reportin' shit back. Alternately, you'd be forcin' yourself to not. Either way we'd both hate ourselves, probably. I figured it was mostly best avoided?

It doesn't matter now because it's not a choice.

[And there it comes back: what Dirk said, back on the beach. Isolation doesn't give you a choice. Tension gets into his low rumble of a voice.]

Maybe we would, but maybe that's something I'd be willing to consider, or try to work on, or something. Or at least maybe I'd like to have a say in it even if I decided I agreed with you that it was the best thing. You didn't let me be part of that decision, or even let me know a decision was happening. It was your unilateral decision about what was best for us, and—[He stops himself. And it'd be kinda cool if next time my brother wants to throw me out for a more trustworthy model he at least tells me to my face that I'm not good enough.

Not fair. He can't say it. He's sounding like he did when Jake broke up with him and he needs to not do that.

Dirk makes himself breathe.] It's like the thing with Jake. I shouldn't have just said, 'Hey, this is a thing.' I should have told you what was going on with me and Jake, and asked you what you and me should do about it with respect to our relationship. Theoretically Jake should also have been at that meeting but I don't know if either of you would have agreed to that. Retrospect can only be enlightening in so many ways. Even if the solution wasn't perfect, it would've been a choice we were all part of.

I just... really would've appreciated being part of that choice, even if the decision that it came down to wasn't one we agreed on.

It matters if you want to change the decision. If you don't want to, which it sounds like you don't really, but if you don't want to go on trips any longer, we can drop it and leave it. If you do, I guess we'd...talk about it. But I don't...want to agree to anythin' that forces you not to be honest with other people. And you've so far declined to agree to anythin' that forces me to do shit I straight up don't want to do. I guess -

[ he has to think back. when he'd flipped gears immediately, and pulled rose out as the one to go with him. ]

I should have said I didn't trust you. Is what you wanted. Instead of makin' you guess? I thought maybe if I had time to regroup it'd - fix itself. And I didn't want you to...I didn't want you to persuade me into somethin' I didn't want, because I didn't want to resent you for it. So I didn't tell you. It wasn't fair. I'll...work on it.

I knew you didn't trust me pretty fast.

[He always reads Dave pretty quickly. There are still things that slip but usually he notices.]

I'd just like... a choice? I don't know that I would've disagreed with your decision on that, because I agreed. I don't want us to do things that make us resent each other. If the cost of that is those trips, then I'd rather not risk your resentment. It's painful, but it's also probably the right decision at this point in time, until we can work out how to negotiate the issues of trust that we have here.

It isn't... unfair to want to be part of that decision, though. I think. [He isn't entirely sure.] I don't think it's unfair to ask to be ... [He looks down. He can't accuse Dave of anything, Dave isn't at fault and Dirk understands what he was intending

I'm aware that I don't always have the best responses, so it might be right to just do what you think is best. In a lot of ways your reasoning about all of it makes sense. But... I said I'd say how I feel about things. If we're talking about how things make me feel, then being cut from decisions about us is that feeling. Stupid and weak and unloveable and unworthy.

I know it isn't rational. [It feels stupid to say it and also necessary. It's cutting off the accusation by reassuring Dave that Dirk is already accusing himself.]

I didn't say it wasn't rational? [ there hadn't been an accusation coming. ] I agreed to it. I'll...let you know if somethin' comes up. The times I don't are because of a lot of things, but - what do you want me to do when talking about it might make you resent me or me resent you?

[ just. so he has that down for future reference. ]

I was just tryin' to explain what I was thinkin' at the time. That was...stupid, you don't need to know any of that. It wasn't even everythin'. I don't trust you and you don't trust me, really, do you?

Edited 2017-01-08 09:06 (UTC)

Knowing what you were thinking helps. I want to get into the practical question, but if we're exhausting ourselves on feelings, I might as well talk about the trust thing.

[Dave says he doesn't trust him and the reverse is true, and it's awful, but it's a funny thing because he says it, so tiring and so stupid.]

It might be we trust each other something like oppositeways. I trust you with everything about me, Dave. I get scared sometimes, but I guess we're pinning my abandonment fear on childhood developmental problems now. I pretty much trust you with all of me, and I know you'd never do anything to hurt me in any way, if you had the information you needed and could help it. I took your hand when we met the Kharaa. [Do you trust me? No hesitation, he'd totally fallen for it, even knowing what he was doing. He doesn't think he's capable of doing otherwise with how hard he trusts Dave.] If there's anything I don't tell you, it's from an assumption you don't want me to.

For the reverse, I know you don't tell me everything or even tell me that you're holding something back. I know that if I kept a count on how many times you lied by word or commission in this conversation, I'd be under the real number. I also know that you don't particularly care for your own well-being. If being aware of those things, and trying to respond to them, is not trusting you, then yes, although that isn't how I think about it.

For the rest, though, my trust is more or less absolute. The times when I hesitate or mess up aren't so much because I distrust you, as they are that I don't trust I deserve you.

What practical question?

[ it's easier to ask that then to figure out how he feels about the rest of it immediately. ]

The Kharaa thing was a different brand of trust. [ is the second thing to come out. he's bad at this. ] I...can trust you with my life. That's what that was.'

[ he trails off for a second, considering it, before settling on: ]

I don't know what to say about the rest of it. [ isn't sure what he thinks and doesn't know what might help. can't explain himself one way or the other or pinpoint why it is he doesn't think dirk trusts him. or maybe those things have to do with what dirk explained? it's not something he can immediately apply. it's something to keep in mind, at least. ]

What to do when there's a risk of resentment.

[That's practical, specifically a question of praxis. A thing to work on.]

We can talk about the rest when you're ready.

[ not what he expected dirk to mean by "practical question". dave's shoulders slump and he decides standing up is awkward and opts to sit down cross-legged. at least it's more comfortable. ]

A'ight, what's your game plan there?

[Dirk frowns though.]

Was that a dumb thing?

[He doesn't know.]

No, it's fine. It's a thing we should talk about?

[ cross-legged shifts into leaning forward with his elbows on his knees and his hands clasped. ]

[He waits another moment, and then sits across from Dave.]

Maybe it'd help if we talked about what could make us resent each other. I...

[This sounds stupid. Man, it sounds stupid. He should just own his stupidity.]

I can't imagine a single thing you could do to make me resent you.

[ the moment gets nothing further body-language out of dave; whatever made him decide to sit down seems to have been shoved out of the way for the time being. he does frown after dirk talks, though. ]

I can imagine lots of things that could make you resent me? [ like. loads. so many. LOTS. ]

[He is frowning because he is thinking about this and trying to understand it.]

Considering everything, it isn't that surprising that you can. I can think of tons of things that would make you resent me. Not all of mine might be wrong, but there are probably more I can think of than would actually work on the grounds that I assume eventually you will realize that I'm as worthless as I know I am.

[LIKE. Maybe there are things that could make Dirk resent Dave? Maybe. But he bets that there are so many fewer than Dave things.]

The only time I was worried about it was the example given. I mean, me resenting you.

[ he shrugs. ]

It probably wouldn't have stuck, anyway. I just...didn't want to have someone tell me why my feelings weren't rational and didn't matter. Which you haven't ever - which you usually haven't done. But one person already talked me out of feeling...human, I guess, last month when that happened. And I didn't want to hear it from you. I didn't want to let you make me feel like not a person, too.

[ ... ]

It sounds stupid. But whatever dumb ideas you have, they probably aren't applicable to the actual thing ever occurring.

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