[ things john probably doesn't intend to cause: dave tensing the fuck up at the continued blank look, so that his casual posture is proven to be a complete lie when john actually reaches out to hug him. since it's harder to act relaxed when someone is touching him and can feel the way his muscles are tied up in knots here.
[He has zero explanation that he's willing to explain yet, so.]
Sup. [To borrow from Dave's vocabulary...but he's back up to his normal body temperature at least and he's not shivering and he's pretty sturdy otherwise. He's not entirely surprised that Dave isn't as relaxed but that's mostly coming from a place of observing Dave a lot lately.]
[ DAVE IS still kind of cold actually, but less frigid than he was outside. just. he warms up slower. he doesn't immediately relax, even though he'd shifted to accommodate john even while tense, automatically steadying john-standing-on-tiptoe with his hands at john's waist. ]
[He doesn't reply immediately and instead he keeps his face hidden in Dave's shoulder for the time being. It's a little startling to be able to hear and measure each one of Dave's breaths and he thinks about what was just said.
"You usually stay with me though." "I do."
And he thinks about October and he thinks about the meeting they're bound to next week because John opened his mouth and he thinks about piano accompaniments and late night movies and pink moon sand and a plethora of other things while he realizes that Dave is the type of person who doesn't want to stay trapped in something and that Dave's sacrificial to a fault.
There are other things, too, that he won't think about at the moment because they're confusing so he leaves them. What he says instead is:]
[ that...sure is a question. dave's pulse speeds up but his breathing doesn't, even and slow. he has no idea how to respond for a second because it isn't the sort of question people usually ask him. in two days, he'll probably think about this question when someone else talks to him about claustrophobia and open spaces and understanding being broken and people who understand there are things you just can't handle.
right now, he stalls out, uncertain how to answer. he can't remember if he told john ever he'd offered to tell everyone everything just to keep dirk happy, once. ]
...Now why would you ask me that one? We talked about this already today. [ did they? ]
["I used to just talk, sometimes." "What changed? Besides the obvious, of course." "...It was my fault. I asked for a little too much, and I knew it, and it's why I tried to get him not to agree to any of it at the outset. And eventually it got to the point where my first instinct when shit went wrong was not to call my brother, but was to run away."
He doesn't feel the adjustment in Dave's pulse, doesn't understand that shift and he obviously can't know of anything future Dave will do. Instead...instead, Dave says that and John's arms tighten just a little more.]
[ all right. shit. it's one of those conversations where he feels like he's balancing on razor-thin glass over a straight drop into nothing. dave pauses again, before he shifts, left hand leaving john's waist to reach up and dislodge john from his shoulder, fingers hooking under john's chin and carefully turning his face up so dave can see what he's working with. ]
Egbert. Don't think, just answer. If I told you to fuck off and leave me alone, full stop, what would you do?
[He's not quite so blank anymore seeing how he's never been great at having a blank expression in the first place. He's nervous and curious and a little something unidentifiable. The question scares him because he doesn't know what the right answer is, so there's another short lull.
But then again, Dave said don't think and just answer.]
Say no. [That would be instinct.] Mostly because I know you better than that, and I would know if you were really serious. And even if you were the answer would be no because I don't think that is one of the things that should just go without a fight at all because you're...you. [Which means?] Meeting your own circumstances for why you'd make me leave doesn't count. The only time I'd actually do it would be if I could one-hundred percent be certain this was what you wanted and not because you think it'd be better for me or because it seems like something I secretly want or whatever.
But. If in the end that is really, truly something you were sure of I'd try to understand. [Try to understand, sure, but not necessarily just walk away. Without notice the grip on Dave tenses up a little. It's a scary concept, but it's also a concept that could maybe someday happen, given what Dave's told him.]
[ okay, this is one of those times dave is just going to respond with. inappropriate laughter because that wasn't actually what he expected john to say so. it's a quiet huff of laughter and his grip on john's chin loosens and. what the hell. ]
Okay, let's dial it back to - don't think, just answer: what if I told you I needed you to fuck off for a day, or a week? For me.
[To be fair that wasn't entirely the answer he expected either when he started talking so there's a confused frown. At least this time his response when Dave starts laughing isn't to stalk off and be mad. He's also not sure what the hell Dave's getting at, so he answers.]
You didn't give me a space of time before, asshole. That is a lot more doable and I'd probably check just to make sure things were okay between us and then fuck off for a day or a week. [He makes a face.] I get wanting space and alone time sometimes, whatever.
[Yeah this. Is not clicking at all. He'll get there in a bit...]
[ he drops john's chin entirely, and dave's hand slides down to rest at the side of john's neck like that's not weird but whatever. ]
So, [ to summarize ] If I told you to fuck off for a specific amount of time you would, and if I told you to leave me alone permanently and really, genuinely meant it for me, you'd try.
[ which part are we even what the fucking here. like yes, it is weird to stand here with one hand at john's waist and the other at his neck but like we could also be what the fucking how he chooses to have this conversation at all???
of course, that's another closed door, isn't it? dave isn't sure how well he can make his point. because he won't ever genuinely completely be able to ask john to do something that would make him unhappy. there's a pause after that where he just chews on his bottom lip before he just proceeds anyway. ]
Has it ever occurred to you that there are cages people make for themselves?
[Both. It's always both and John's never sure how to keep up with anything and he has the vague awareness that the pancakes will get cold but pancakes reheat well so he's less thinking of that. He lets Dave hold his waist and his neck and he keeps quiet while he waits.]
Yes. It has. Though I suppose that depends on the kind of cage.
If the cages are created because people provided the materials, or if they were handcrafted all on their own. [Metaphors are hard.] But why do you ask?
Because, [ because? ] The ways in which I can't get away from you aren't on you. So yeah, they exist. But they're not your fault, and you do your best to...let me fuck off as far as I can go, if I need to. You asked me if you gave me enough outs, right?
[ his fingers tap on the side of john's neck, frenetic even when his face is perfectly calm. ]
["Not strong-arming you into something that's clearly made you uncomfortable?"
Naturally he doesn't say that. He lets Dave tap out a pattern on his neck and he keeps his expression as calm as possible while he thinks of a more appropriate answer.]
I don't know. I just wanted to be sure that the decisions I've been making aren't caging you in just because you'll follow me pretty much everywhere I'll go. Just because that's a thing doesn't mean I want to abuse it.
[ stupidly it does not occur to dave that there is any sort of relationship that does not involve someone strong-arming him into things that make him uncomfortable so. whatever. ]
As you've pointed out, I'm an adult. My decisions aren't yours to get all bent up out of shape over. I'm fine? You're...you.
[He opens his mouth to say something and there's a little puff of air when he changes his mind but he falls quiet again.
Saying "I don't want to be like your brother" isn't going to help, maybe.]
You get crazy about my decisions, so I am just saying it should be allowed to be both ways. You got on my case earlier about what I want and...this is what I want. So. Shut up.
[ because john cannot mean having what feels like but does not sound like an argument in the kitchen at nearing five am while pancakes get cold, surely. ]
Luckily (or unluckily? Fuck why is their life so goddamn stupid?) this isn't the first time that Dave's done this and he can keep up even if he's now apparently waltzing with his roommate at nearly 5am in his pajamas and their mutated cat is watching them.]
[ the other option was asking john to have a sword fight at five am and that would maybe be stupider????
stop going along with this sort of bullshit, john. ]
Lots of reasons, but mainly I don't know how to say it so you'll believe it when I say you're not trappin' me into shit. Or at least I - [ annoyed noise and he will do another stupid turn in the kitchen because it's activity and that helps ] - do not think that anyone ever cares about anyone else without kind of tyin' themselves down. That is a thing that happens when you love people regardless of whether or not you mean it to. I would cut out my heart and stamp on it if Rose asked me to, but that doesn't mean she's makin' me stay, or that she's at fault for my loving her that way?
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
he's not sure if he fucked up or not, actually. ]
John?
no subject
Sup. [To borrow from Dave's vocabulary...but he's back up to his normal body temperature at least and he's not shivering and he's pretty sturdy otherwise. He's not entirely surprised that Dave isn't as relaxed but that's mostly coming from a place of observing Dave a lot lately.]
no subject
...I don't know, you tell me?
no subject
"You usually stay with me though."
"I do."
And he thinks about October and he thinks about the meeting they're bound to next week because John opened his mouth and he thinks about piano accompaniments and late night movies and pink moon sand and a plethora of other things while he realizes that Dave is the type of person who doesn't want to stay trapped in something and that Dave's sacrificial to a fault.
There are other things, too, that he won't think about at the moment because they're confusing so he leaves them. What he says instead is:]
Do I give you enough outs for when you need them?
no subject
right now, he stalls out, uncertain how to answer. he can't remember if he told john ever he'd offered to tell everyone everything just to keep dirk happy, once. ]
...Now why would you ask me that one? We talked about this already today. [ did they? ]
no subject
"What changed? Besides the obvious, of course."
"...It was my fault. I asked for a little too much, and I knew it, and it's why I tried to get him not to agree to any of it at the outset. And eventually it got to the point where my first instinct when shit went wrong was not to call my brother, but was to run away."
He doesn't feel the adjustment in Dave's pulse, doesn't understand that shift and he obviously can't know of anything future Dave will do. Instead...instead, Dave says that and John's arms tighten just a little more.]
Did we? We've talked about a lot of things today.
no subject
Egbert. Don't think, just answer. If I told you to fuck off and leave me alone, full stop, what would you do?
no subject
But then again, Dave said don't think and just answer.]
Say no. [That would be instinct.] Mostly because I know you better than that, and I would know if you were really serious. And even if you were the answer would be no because I don't think that is one of the things that should just go without a fight at all because you're...you. [Which means?] Meeting your own circumstances for why you'd make me leave doesn't count. The only time I'd actually do it would be if I could one-hundred percent be certain this was what you wanted and not because you think it'd be better for me or because it seems like something I secretly want or whatever.
But. If in the end that is really, truly something you were sure of I'd try to understand. [Try to understand, sure, but not necessarily just walk away. Without notice the grip on Dave tenses up a little. It's a scary concept, but it's also a concept that could maybe someday happen, given what Dave's told him.]
no subject
Okay, let's dial it back to - don't think, just answer: what if I told you I needed you to fuck off for a day, or a week? For me.
no subject
You didn't give me a space of time before, asshole. That is a lot more doable and I'd probably check just to make sure things were okay between us and then fuck off for a day or a week. [He makes a face.] I get wanting space and alone time sometimes, whatever.
[Yeah this. Is not clicking at all. He'll get there in a bit...]
no subject
So, [ to summarize ] If I told you to fuck off for a specific amount of time you would, and if I told you to leave me alone permanently and really, genuinely meant it for me, you'd try.
no subject
I'd be pretty unhappy about it, but yeah. That would be the thing, I guess.
no subject
of course, that's another closed door, isn't it? dave isn't sure how well he can make his point. because he won't ever genuinely completely be able to ask john to do something that would make him unhappy. there's a pause after that where he just chews on his bottom lip before he just proceeds anyway. ]
Has it ever occurred to you that there are cages people make for themselves?
no subject
Yes. It has. Though I suppose that depends on the kind of cage.
no subject
[ - and as usual he gets derailed from his point to clarify what john's saying, curious and easily distracted as ever... ]
no subject
no subject
[ his fingers tap on the side of john's neck, frenetic even when his face is perfectly calm. ]
What other outs even are there, John?
no subject
Naturally he doesn't say that. He lets Dave tap out a pattern on his neck and he keeps his expression as calm as possible while he thinks of a more appropriate answer.]
I don't know. I just wanted to be sure that the decisions I've been making aren't caging you in just because you'll follow me pretty much everywhere I'll go. Just because that's a thing doesn't mean I want to abuse it.
no subject
As you've pointed out, I'm an adult. My decisions aren't yours to get all bent up out of shape over. I'm fine? You're...you.
no subject
Saying "I don't want to be like your brother" isn't going to help, maybe.]
You get crazy about my decisions, so I am just saying it should be allowed to be both ways. You got on my case earlier about what I want and...this is what I want. So. Shut up.
no subject
[ because john cannot mean having what feels like but does not sound like an argument in the kitchen at nearing five am while pancakes get cold, surely. ]
no subject
I want to actually understand what it is you're thinking half the time if you'll let me. I know we've talked about this but I'm serious.
no subject
abruptly, he lets his hand fall from john's neck and executes a spin to the right and pulls him into
a waltz
to keep himself busy, mostly. it's a little easier to think. he could have done something stupider but it is hard to think what. ]
Worry a little less? I'm not running away from you. Do you want me to?
no subject
Luckily (or unluckily? Fuck why is their life so goddamn stupid?) this isn't the first time that Dave's done this and he can keep up even if he's now apparently waltzing with his roommate at nearly 5am in his pajamas and their mutated cat is watching them.]
Absolutely not, why the fuck would I want that?
no subject
stop going along with this sort of bullshit, john. ]
Lots of reasons, but mainly I don't know how to say it so you'll believe it when I say you're not trappin' me into shit. Or at least I - [ annoyed noise and he will do another stupid turn in the kitchen because it's activity and that helps ] - do not think that anyone ever cares about anyone else without kind of tyin' themselves down. That is a thing that happens when you love people regardless of whether or not you mean it to. I would cut out my heart and stamp on it if Rose asked me to, but that doesn't mean she's makin' me stay, or that she's at fault for my loving her that way?
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)