Back what you need, hm. I don't think you have been the 20%, Dave. I think what you experienced may be the most balanced that you could have been.
You see, the "chill" state of the 20% is that you get back what you need and want and don't want. Say, you were hungry, you want to buy food for yourself but only able to buy a small snack from the vending machine. This is fine to you. But your friend instead takes you to a restaurant and pays for the entire meal. That is the 20% existence.
ok i think youve misunderstood me maybe but lots of people do but also im no longer clear on which percent does fucking what
but yes while i dont think im going to get into it ive been in the percent that gave more than i got i just dont want a lot in return so what does it fucking matter what my overall point i dont think that there are all these wounds that you keep talking about or dont have to be and i think youre generalizing about a thing that varies from person to person ie how we interact with one another and what we feel about it and how we feel
No need to get cagey. We are merely having a discussion. But I disagree about generalization. It is easy to say that and dismiss what is said. So I will add... Simply, if a person is truly happy being the 20%, they are not a good person. Kind, yes, but not good.
i dont think were having a discussion really at this point and i would hazard a suggestion youre kind of dismissing me a lot more than you think you are but ok by all means go on
I disagree with you. I don't dismiss you. You are clever and smart and living as you best see fit. You have kindness about you but defensive where that kindness stems from. I certainly cannot tell where it is but I think you are doing as well as you can right now.
I will continue, if you will allow me. Because while you say go on, I feel it more of a response spit out rather than actually wanting me to keep going.
you may as well at this point but its kind of dismissive when you repeatedly word it as though theres no other option than your opinion i dont think your opinion is always wrong but i know it isnt always right either whereas you keep stating that everything i think is wrong always and then go in about how it has to hurt people because x y z without seeming to consider that not everyone is hurt by the same things or considers the same things important
so
dont patronize me and maybe talk to me like my ideas are valid also and not just something im doing "as well as i can right now" the implication being i could do better if i agreed with you
I apologize. That is merely how I talk. I will do some self reflection in trying to find a better way to word my thoughts. It would not do well to have people feel as though I am dismissing them.
You are taking that implication. I don't believe I have said it. Furthermore, I am also doing as well as I can right now. I never thought of it as an insult since it is what I use when I talk about myself, but I suppose one can take it as one. Does that wording sound rude? It is not meant to be. I am merely thoughtful over it.
no none of that sounded as rude it wasnt rude exactly so much as sort of high handed in a way that i know everyone is guilty of at some point or another but it felt dismissive because my opinions are based on personal experiences so when im told things cant be the way ive experienced them or learned them it feels like im being told im existing wrong or that what i felt wasnt valid or real
I see. If I said you are living your life wrong, I would have to say my father lived his life wrong. And I can't do that. So allow me to give my explanation by telling his story.
My father loved me. I couldn't love him back. I can't love anyone, to be honest. I don't have such feelings inside of me.
He never showed me anger or disappointment. He only ever showed me affection and care. He considered my poor personality a fault of his own. Like if he had been a better father, I could have learned to love someone.
I was the twenty, no, probably even less than that. He sacrificed and sacrificed for me. Whenever I would ask him to stop or say I was sorry, he would tell me it was all right; he didn't hurt; that he didn't mind so long it was for me.
My father was kind but not good. He allowed me to receive wound after wound, without even noticing they were there. That no matter what I said, he would only try harder.
I never did come to love him. It was always like watching someone run into a brick wall, breaking bones and blood splattering everywhere. Even if you hated the person, you would want them to stop. So there was never any love. There was never any hate. Just a tired wish of wanting him to stop. Yet he continued.
I hope the story helps you understand why I want people to live selfishly. I can't, unfortunately, because I am not so responsible an adult that I take my own advice.
It is why I say if the twenty percent can feel no agony, they are not good people. If the twenty cannot get them to stop, they are not good people. It is why I say that the eighty cannot see their pain, they are not good people. If they continue even after hearing the pleas, they are not good people.
Everyone is just kind.
It is why there should be some balance and a life lived more selfishly than selflessly.
Yes. In the end, I tried to mimic love for him. To show him that his sacrifices were not for nothing; even if I felt nothing, I have enough moral sense to feel guilty. But unfortunately, he saw through it. And I think that hurt him more than if I did nothing at all. But that is my opinion. He may have been very happy I wanted to try in the first place. Who could say?
no i mean yes it probably hurt but i dont think you can be sure it wouldnt hurt more if you hadnt done even that much at least it was something rather than caring for a complete void basic human courtesy is better than the alternative every time
Though, I suppose that is why I in turn became defensive, and why it sounded as though I was dismissing and adamantly telling you how wrong it was to think that way.
I do not wish for anyone to be in anything close to that situation, Dave. So you can understand my hesitation when I heard of how you've been living your life.
Edited (kei really overshares sometimes but doesn't need to right now, hahaha) 2018-03-12 22:39 (UTC)
ive never taken on any wound that i havent fully accepted and gone into knowingly sometimes people cant or dont care about you the way you care about them but i think itd hurt also to try to cut out the part of you that gives a fuck about them so its just a matter of what it is you want to do about it love them or leave them
the choice shouldnt be made for people in either direction maybe
Perhaps not. And perhaps, if you can look at everything and say you're happy and content, I cannot say anything. Indeed, I shouldn't say anything. Hold onto the wounds that you've accepted. They shall be what give your life meaning. But I believe you already know that to be true.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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you get back what you need
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I don't think you have been the 20%, Dave.
I think what you experienced may be the most balanced that you could have been.
You see, the "chill" state of the 20% is that you get back what you need and want and don't want. Say, you were hungry, you want to buy food for yourself but only able to buy a small snack from the vending machine. This is fine to you. But your friend instead takes you to a restaurant and pays for the entire meal.
That is the 20% existence.
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but also
im no longer clear on which percent does fucking what
but yes while i dont think im going to get into it
ive been in the percent that gave more than i got
i just dont want a lot in return so what does it fucking matter
what my overall point
i dont think that there are all these wounds that you keep talking about
or dont have to be
and i think youre generalizing about a thing that varies from person to person
ie how we interact with one another and what we feel about it and how we feel
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We are merely having a discussion.
But I disagree about generalization.
It is easy to say that and dismiss what is said.
So I will add... Simply, if a person is truly happy being the 20%, they are not a good person.
Kind, yes, but not good.
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and i would hazard a suggestion youre kind of dismissing me a lot more than you think you are
but ok
by all means go on
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I don't dismiss you.
You are clever and smart and living as you best see fit. You have kindness about you but defensive where that kindness stems from. I certainly cannot tell where it is but I think you are doing as well as you can right now.
I will continue, if you will allow me.
Because while you say go on, I feel it more of a response spit out rather than actually wanting me to keep going.
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but its kind of dismissive when you repeatedly word it as though theres no other option than your opinion
i dont think your opinion is always wrong but i know it isnt always right either
whereas you keep stating that everything i think is wrong always and then go in about how it has to hurt people because x y z
without seeming to consider that not everyone is hurt by the same things
or considers the same things important
so
dont patronize me and maybe talk to me like my ideas are valid also
and not just something im doing "as well as i can right now"
the implication being i could do better if i agreed with you
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That is merely how I talk.
I will do some self reflection in trying to find a better way to word my thoughts.
It would not do well to have people feel as though I am dismissing them.
You are taking that implication.
I don't believe I have said it.
Furthermore, I am also doing as well as I can right now.
I never thought of it as an insult since it is what I use when I talk about myself, but I suppose one can take it as one.
Does that wording sound rude? It is not meant to be. I am merely thoughtful over it.
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it wasnt rude exactly so much as sort of
high handed in a way that i know everyone is guilty of at some point or another
but it felt dismissive because my opinions are based on personal experiences
so when im told things cant be the way ive experienced them or learned them
it feels like im being told im existing wrong
or that what i felt wasnt valid or real
which isnt your intent i realize probably
but thats what it felt like
so ok
why am i not a good person
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If I said you are living your life wrong, I would have to say my father lived his life wrong.
And I can't do that.
So allow me to give my explanation by telling his story.
My father loved me.
I couldn't love him back.
I can't love anyone, to be honest.
I don't have such feelings inside of me.
He never showed me anger or disappointment.
He only ever showed me affection and care.
He considered my poor personality a fault of his own. Like if he had been a better father, I could have learned to love someone.
I was the twenty, no, probably even less than that.
He sacrificed and sacrificed for me. Whenever I would ask him to stop or say I was sorry, he would tell me it was all right; he didn't hurt; that he didn't mind so long it was for me.
My father was kind but not good.
He allowed me to receive wound after wound, without even noticing they were there. That no matter what I said, he would only try harder.
I never did come to love him.
It was always like watching someone run into a brick wall, breaking bones and blood splattering everywhere.
Even if you hated the person, you would want them to stop.
So there was never any love.
There was never any hate.
Just a tired wish of wanting him to stop.
Yet he continued.
I hope the story helps you understand why I want people to live selfishly.
I can't, unfortunately, because I am not so responsible an adult that I take my own advice.
(2/2)
If the twenty cannot get them to stop, they are not good people.
It is why I say that the eighty cannot see their pain, they are not good people.
If they continue even after hearing the pleas, they are not good people.
Everyone is just kind.
It is why there should be some balance and a life lived more selfishly than selflessly.
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feel love for him
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In the end, I tried to mimic love for him.
To show him that his sacrifices were not for nothing; even if I felt nothing, I have enough moral sense to feel guilty.
But unfortunately, he saw through it.
And I think that hurt him more than if I did nothing at all.
But that is my opinion.
He may have been very happy I wanted to try in the first place.
Who could say?
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i mean yes it probably hurt
but i dont think you can be sure it wouldnt hurt more if you hadnt done even that much
at least it was something
rather than caring for a complete void
basic human courtesy is better than the alternative every time
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Though, I suppose that is why I in turn became defensive, and why it sounded as though I was dismissing and adamantly telling you how wrong it was to think that way.
I do not wish for anyone to be in anything close to that situation, Dave.
So you can understand my hesitation when I heard of how you've been living your life.
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sometimes people cant or dont care about you the way you care about them
but i think itd hurt also to try to cut out the part of you that gives a fuck about them
so its just a matter of what it is you want to do about it
love them or leave them
the choice shouldnt be made for people in either direction maybe
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And perhaps, if you can look at everything and say you're happy and content, I cannot say anything.
Indeed, I shouldn't say anything.
Hold onto the wounds that you've accepted.
They shall be what give your life meaning.
But I believe you already know that to be true.
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i should maybe bail and go check in with my roommate
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Thank you for talking to me so long.
I feel it has been enlightening for me, as well.
Take care.
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